Thanks for your response -- you make many interesting points. I will not try to respond point-by-point, but will try to give you an idea of where my thinking is at now...
Well, it's been a few weeks. I was away for a couple of those -- first on holiday in Norway (not an EU country, but I was in the company of quite a range of EU citizens), then with work in Germany.
Mostly people were bewildered by the result of the referendum. I guess they, like me, get to see a lot of the advantages of the EU first-hand. I didn't find anyone who thought the UK had made the right decision. A few, since then, have come to the conclusion that it might turn out to be the best result for the EU itself, in a 'getting rid of the awkward squad' kind of way. No doubt I have self-selected plenty of friends who I'm in agreement with.
I have been accused of being in denial about the referendum result. I believe that there are many who voted Leave who are actually in denial -- about the consequences of leaving the EU. Rather than disputing that, the general response is 'get over it, we need to work together now'. Okay, fine, I think we will all want this to turn out the best way possible. But it is on the Leave side to prove their case, now. To figure out what that work is, that needs to be done. Propose ideas. Make a plan. I don't think it's on the Remain side to just accept where we are and stop challenging it.
I have not seen any further evidence of a plan in the last few weeks. I have doubts about the Opposition's ability to hold the government to account. I have doubts about the government's ability to find a practical, workable way of executing 'Brexit'. I think it's unfair that a decision of this magnitude was won based on so little (honest) information about what would happen afterwards. You came to your conclusions independently of the media. I don't think that's true of the majority.
Before the referendum I made two lists of reasons why I was going to vote Remain. One entirely selfish, and one based on the more general reasons why I thought Britain was better in the EU. (I resist the temptation to edit either of them with the benefit of hindsight).
The selfish reasons:
- I work for a company based in Germany. Leaving the EU would not make me feel more secure.
- My hobby/obsession has me travelling (affordably and easily) all over Europe. I can only imagine this would be less affordable and less easy if we left.
- I have a lot of good friends - and many acquaintances I like very much - from EU countries who live in the UK. I don't want to make it harder for those people to be here, or for future good friends I haven't met yet!
- I fundamentally seem to like the EU. When I hear about disputes between our government and Brussels, I'd say I tend to agree with Brussels more than with our lot.
- I consider myself 'European', as well as British.
The more general reasons (okay, I got a bit carried away with this one, and there are plenty of personal reasons in here too):
Maybe some of those reasons were based on untruths, distortions, misunderstandings. But I spent lots of time thinking about it, and I decided these, to me, were good reasons. The temptation is to rationalise a decision to match your own selfish reasons. I tried to challenge myself on that. I tried to think of a good reason why I would vote Leave. I couldn't find a single thing that rang true to me. Plenty of things that are less than ideal about the EU -- but none that suggested we were better off out than we were in with a seat at the table.
I still have heard no reasons for people to vote Leave that weren't based either on the information that Johnson and Farage and co were putting around (the sort of information that has been backtracked on within hours of the result), or else on a rather vague notion of sovereignty (without any specific explanations of what they expected to change). Our dialogue began when I asked your for your reasons for voting Leave, at which point you sent me to your blog post. However, I notice that post doesn't actually give your reasons for voting Leave -- instead it gives your reasons for not wanting to give your reasons. That's fair enough, and your prerogative, but that's the kind of wall I end up hitting when I do ask people 'why...?' The only people who do seem to be giving their reasons are the ones who want to 'keep immigration down' or 'take back control'. Generally the former are the ones who have the least contact with 'immigrants', and the latter never actually say what it is they thought they didn't have control of before that they will have control of after we leave the EU. For me, those are simply not good reasons. Maybe I should look harder but, like you, it's distressing and frustrating to feel like you're going through the same loop. I'm hoping this conversation will provide a means to break out of that loop one way or the other.
Your subsequent post suggests your reason is that the UK is giving up too much in return for membership of the EU. But I'm not clear on entirely what that is (probably because I'm not smart enough without you spelling it out...!)
So, I am still missing the Good Reasons for how we ended up with a Leave vote.
Regarding the increase of racist incidents, which I focused on in my last post. I take your point that it is harsh to be associated with racism just because you happen to vote the same way as most (I'm sure there were exceptions even in this) racists in a binary referendum. I have no doubt that you, personally, are as sickened by that as I am. I will do my best to keep the two things separate...! We must all do whatever it is we can do to try to stem that particular tidal wave.
-- Matthew.
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